Curse

Legally · Jan 13, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

I Kinda agree with Takida.

I guess the normal maps are "fine" if u compare to Hoh.
The only reason i dont play HA atm is because of the mechanics in halls.
Knowing that you will most likely get ganked, And still if u dont get ganked there is no fun in halls, Except for KotH but old school Altar holding was alot more fun.

ANET Must READ the thread and look what people think..
Just put Altar Holding back in Hoh as the only mechanic..
It will make such a big difference...

Pfffft.

maraxusofk · Jan 16, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

iono i guess any game type that is gank proof? holding nowadays is mostly dependent on who DOESNT get ganked. kinda tired of it imo but i dont do ha much anymore so jsut my 2 cents.

Thorondor Port · Jan 16, 2008, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Killcount had it's chance and it turned up as a huge failure, I can't see why it should be re-implemented.

Ha, I loved these maps. (except when it turned into 2v1 gank)

Kyp Jade · Jan 16, 2008, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Kill count was a failure because people didnt know how to play aggresivly, and when they got ganked by some random unknown noob team, just died.

tigros · Jan 16, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Kill count was a failure because people didnt know how to play aggresivly, and when they got ganked by some random unknown noob team, just died.

Isn't this the whole point? The good guys killing the bad guys? That was the whole purpose of kill count maps, as carrying more relics to your ghostly is the purpose of relic map, as capping and holding the hill is the point of the king of the hill and so on...

*shrug*

Horace The Great · Jan 17, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Kill count was a failure because people didnt know how to play aggresivly, and when they got ganked by some random unknown noob team, just died.

You couldn't really play aggressively if you had 2 ritspike teams on you.

Kyp Jade · Jan 17, 2008, 12:32 AM // 00:32

First of all, a rit spike needs spirits up and alive to survive against heavy damage and pressure that most balanced teams could apply fast. Either in the form of 2 warriors w/splinter or 1 or more fire eles.

I clearly recal being ganked on courtyard by two rt spikes, running past one and exploding it in a choke as it chased me. And I was free after that to spawn camp them while the other rit spike tried to score kills off us. (they did score the ghost while we were running past however, but who cares I won by a +15 kills)

Dervishes were also evil on these maps, so much spike dmg from mel dervs it wasnt fair.

DarkGanni · Jan 17, 2008, 12:38 AM // 00:38

I like it as it is right now, Objective rotating looks fun to me.

- Ganni

elektra_lucia · Jan 17, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12

I remember two teams fighting. Ugly and someone. We pretended to be AFK. They battled it out, health bars were like this:

|-------|-----|
|-------|-----|
|-|-----------|
|----|--------|
|-|-----------|
|-----|-------|
|-|-----------|
|---|---------|

!!!

Then we quickly ran across with a couple of lame hero ele's and killed everything. The local soon filled up and we won flawless =D. I wouldn't say we were the better team. For most matches, you could win by skill but some (when both teams just WTF pwned you) there wasn't much you could do.

Killed u man · Jan 17, 2008, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Why are you guys discussing wether or not KC was fair? It wasn't... It was removed because it wasn't... How are you going to score skills with a pressure build? You can't, a spike simply "outbuilds" you. You degen them down to 80% HP, they finish him of with a nice spike... Also not to mention the issues with "life stealing", "loss of life" (SV), etc..

KC sucked, but KoTH was way better than current HoH, I gues the 52/100 ratio says enough...

elektra_lucia · Jan 17, 2008, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Why are you discussing kill count, killed u man?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discussing
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/argument

Quote:

It wasn't...

Your point of view (many others too).

Quote:

It was removed because it wasn't...

Something to convince us of your argument.

Quote:

How are you going to score skills with a pressure build?

Question for your argument.

Quote:

You can't, a spike simply "outbuilds" you.

Weight to your argument.

Quote:

Also not to mention the issues with "life stealing", "loss of life" (SV), etc..

Other examples of convincing us of your argument

.

Hypocrite?

.

Lorekeeper · Jan 17, 2008, 03:16 PM // 15:16

call me crazy but i miss kill count

i miss the chaos... i miss the carnage... i miss having 24 players all nuking eachother to hell and being the 1 team to come out on top... i miss calling strat for kill count...

i just dont miss things like being ganked by 2 alliance teams, or entire teams sacrificing themselves to their friends, or the fact that spikes had such an advantage over pure pressure.

but i do miss it as a whole!

bring back kill count! lol

Killed u man · Jan 17, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Why are you discussing kill count, killed u man?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discussing
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/argument

Your point of view (many others too).

Something to convince us of your argument.

Question for your argument.

Weight to your argument.

Other examples of convincing us of your argument

.

Hypocrite?

.

I ain't discussing, I was giving the "final" conclussions of the 1000 cry topic on KC. In a discussion, you go in with the intention of defending your point of view, whilst trying to make other people understand your point. I ain't defending anything, you can either realize the truth, or live in your ignorance...

Quote:

Originally Posted by killed u man

KC sucked, but KoTH was way better than current HoH, I gues the 52/100 ratio says enough...

That clearly ain't a point, that's the cold, hard truth. You get your facts straight

elektra_lucia · Jan 17, 2008, 11:11 PM // 23:11

That is rather like saying 'you're an idiot' and then the person saying 'why are you insulting me!?' the reply given might be 'I'm not, just stating facts'.

The bottom line is, whether you think what you said were facts or otherwise, you were still arguing/discussing. You were still defending your point. I knew you were going to say you were not discussing, that is why I proved you did.

As I said, hypocrite

.

God Apprentice · Jan 18, 2008, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

call me crazy but i miss kill count

i miss the chaos... i miss the carnage... i miss having 24 players all nuking eachother to hell and being the 1 team to come out on top... i miss calling strat for kill count...

i just dont miss things like being ganked by 2 alliance teams, or entire teams sacrificing themselves to their friends, or the fact that spikes had such an advantage over pure pressure.

but i do miss it as a whole!

bring back kill count! lol

No.

After the campaigning to get rid of it, bring back 8 man, lower Heros allowed etc, that's a step back and will probably have ANet wondering do WE even know what we want?

Unless your post is sarcasmz?

Kyp Jade · Jan 18, 2008, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Im pretty sure that most of the HA population back then LIKED killcount (since spiritway was a VERY good build to play on KC maps), but were not guru posters. Most guru posters that Ive seen play either run some form of "balanced" or some of the harder to play gimmicks like rspike.

Please dont try to speak for me and say what I wanted, I played balanced and very much enjoyed killcount because 90% of the people that I played against did NOT know how to play aggresivly, did NOT know how to pressure out a rit spike team quick for 8 lovely kills, and did NOT know wtf do to when either they were getting ganked by a noob team, or a noob team was ganking the other team. No, people that bictched about kill count are teh same people that want stupidly simple objectives like old school altar holding. (which involes no other tactic than CAP LAST)

edit---
I would also note, that with the death of KC and the addition of cap points, spiritway teams fell out of favor (well, the nerf to # of heroes you can take did this some, but this did the rest)for this lower end part of the community, since cap points is difficult to do for spiritway at that level. So basically with SWAY gone, fearme came back, which sucks because SWAY is a lot easier to kill lol.

You are only now seeing SWAY teams again because of the huge dominance of iway and how easy it is for sway to crush iway

Killed u man · Jan 18, 2008, 09:07 PM // 21:07

"(which involes no other tactic than CAP LAST)"
Too lazy to quote tags.

Because:
-> Runnign the LAST Relic requires so much more tactics...
-> Not getting ganked on capture points requires so much more tactics
-> Not getting ganked on KoTH maps after one team can't get enough points anymore is so much more tactics
-> Spamming AoE on a spot which is not larger than a ward is so much harder
-> Running back a forward 8 minutes is so much harder
-> Because realizing capture points is retarded with only 4 shrines is so much harder
-> Because once again, people who concider themselves 1337 because they know how to play, and they got it ALL figured out because they could beat a ritspike in Kill Count, which obviously wasn't due to the fact that that certain ritspike was r3+, and your team was prolly r9/10+, and the fact you had a shitload of AoE in your team. (No offence Kyp, you usually are a cool guy, but I hate how brainless that post was)

KC is/was/will always be unfair. It promot's AoE and spikes even more than current HoH conditions... Any form of pressure falls out of the boat with a form of KC involved...

So wait, you guys are saying OLD school holding promoted lame play? That's why atm you only see 4 builds: Herogay, IV-spike, Rspike, and than "balanced" between large brackets (Or whatever " is), because you can be pretty damn sure they abuse fire aoe and/or splinter weapon. If not, it's a top 100 guild playing during noob hour, and got a skip to HoH.

Also, Kyp, I like your play, I always have, so I hope you don't take this post personal. You really are one of the few that always tried to stick with a "balanced" build, BUT you were wrong on one major thing: People ain't running heroway because of the large ammount of IWAY. People are playing heroway because you only need 6 people, it's easy pugable, even easier than IWAY, and is more overpowered. So, I gues you could say the real reason everyone is running heroway is due to inactivity/lazyness of people.

I formed a new made spike recently, and gues what, it took me 1.5 hours to find 3 pugs. I had a total of 15 people in my team, but ALL of them left after having to wait 10 minutes for a next guy.
The fact that people realize HA is near dead, and the fact that 90% of what's left in HA right now are herowayers, IS the reason there is so many herowayers. If someone joins my team, I can tell within the minute if he's a herowayer/iwayer straight away. WHY? They do NOT have any patience, for them HA is nothing more than: Go in fast, spam your bar empty, get fame or retry.... (And with retry I mean: Leave before you saw the "You have been defeated" message, and they go spam in ID1: R9+ Non-herowayer lf heroway!)

elektra_lucia · Jan 18, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

People always have a twisted view on the past. People will always have a twisted view on the future. Balance is debatable as to what it really is or what it was... The hero'way with n/rts and thumpers is EXTREMELY easy to beat. I don't even like it being referred to heroway. Heroway in my opinion is something that contains hero's but when someone says 'he's done heroway', people will automatically assume n/rts and thumpers... I enjoy playing with heroes with like TVC or sissy girl. A form of balance you could say. Not with n/rts and thumpers =P. Do I play this because I'm impatient? If I'm truthful I can be VERY patient. I actually dislike how much people screw up. Top 100 guild or otherwise, people GENERALLY are crap. I don't even think 'oh he made top 100' is a valid point to make in order to say someone is good (not that anyone has done this in this thread yet but in game I get it).

If you look at builds, skill, in GVG, HA or even Hero battles for that matter. EVERYTHING is lacking. You're right that people can be impatient (the s'way herowayers). This is a major problem, and also people hate change...

All I EVER ask as a monk usually, is for draw as a prot or to have stability as an infuser. I generally get neither. I quote monk a lot because that's what I play.

The fire ele's can't see ball ups in game, or snares. Warriors don't change targets quick enough. People lack observation. When rank12's have no observation/awareness. They aren't going to improve much.

If it takes some effort in order to be good, and people simply don't have any effort. They won't have effort to make builds either.

Don't always blame a-net or HA. GVG meta is crap ATM.

People == suck.

Legally · Jan 18, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

I would also note, that with the death of KC and the addition of cap points, spiritway teams fell out of favor (well, the nerf to # of heroes you can take did this some, but this did the rest)for this lower end part of the community, since cap points is difficult to do for spiritway at that level. So basically with SWAY gone, fearme came back, which sucks because SWAY is a lot easier to kill lol.

rofl. Spiritway was still played and allmost as succesful, The only reason there's so few sways now is because of SR Nerf ( No energy from your own spirits)

Killed u man · Jan 18, 2008, 10:23 PM // 22:23

The only reason for so few sways now is: 8 people, the fact that nobody used the MM and Hex necro yet.

Well that and the fact that spirirts got nerfed (half health), SR got nerfed, Splinter weapon got nerfed and thumpers did... I know current heroway also uses thumpers and splinter weapon, but spiritway was FULLY based on the thumpers/splinterweapon, with traps being a easy way of snaring/dazing targets... Now, the pressure clearly comes from the heroes planting nearly EVERY hex with the effectivness of a r12+ player. The heroes will ALWAYS barbs the guy who will be taking most attacks, same for mark of pain. The automaticly put SS on anyone who they "see" spamming spells or attacks, etc... The pressure doesn't come from the thumpers, because "Ward of Melee" > thumpers...

Another reason why everyone ran Spiritway back then, is, and I don't know how often U guys actually played KC, the balling up. I don't know if you guys remember the Broken Tower map, but you had stairs/narrow hallways all over the place. Splinter Weapon had the "infite" aoe back then (no max of 3) AND 63 seconds duration (I remember well

). I remember at a certain point people even running 4 R/D's and 1 Trapper. The 4 R/D's AND the pets all had splinter weapon, and I swear to God, they took teams down in 4 seconds... (IAS + Splinter ftl)

Now, once again, this thread isn't about KC, it's about old school holding

I also know I keep replying here when people post somethign about KC, but I'm a forum troll, and I still am waiting for a decent reason NOT to re-implement Old-School-Holding. (I know it won't happen, because Anet=lazy, but I would still like a reason, just so I feel better for the last year I spend trying to get it back

)